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Old 02-06-2010, 11:20 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Octopi gather coconut shells to convince prey they are horses

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An octopus and its coconut-carrying antics have surprised scientists.


Underwater footage reveals that the creatures scoop up halved coconut shells before scampering away with them so they can later use them as shelters.
Writing in the journal Current Biology, the team says it is the first example of tool use in octopuses.
One of the researchers, Dr Julian Finn from Australia's Museum Victoria, told BBC News: "I almost drowned laughing when I saw this the first time."
He added: "I could tell it was going to do something, but I didn't expect this - I didn't expect it would pick up the shell and run away with it."
Quick getaway
The veined octopuses (Amphioctopus marginatus) were filmed between 1999 and 2008 off the coasts of Northern Sulawesi and Bali in Indonesia. The bizarre behaviour was spotted on four occasions.
The octopuses use the coconuts as a shelter

The eight-armed beasts used halved coconuts that had been discarded by humans and had eventually settled in the ocean.
Dr Mark Norman, head of science at Museum Victoria, Melbourne, and one of the authors of the paper, said: "It is amazing watching them excavate one of these shells. They probe their arms down to loosen the mud, then they rotate them out."
After turning the shells so the open side faces upwards, the octopuses blow jets of mud out of the bowl before extending their arms around the shell - or if they have two halves, stacking them first, one inside the other - before stiffening their legs and tip-toeing away.
Dr Norman said: "I think it is amazing that those arms of pure muscle get turned into rigid rods so that they can run along a bit like a high-speed spider.
"It comes down to amazing dexterity and co-ordination of eight arms and several hundred suckers."
Home, sweet home
The octopuses were filmed moving up to 20m with the shells.
And their awkward gait, which the scientists describe as "stilt-walking", is surprisingly speedy, possibly because the creatures are left vulnerable to attack from predators while they scuttle away with their prized coconuts.
The veined octopus is a meaty feast for predators

The octopuses eventually use the shells as a protective shelter. If they just have one half, they simply turn it over and hide underneath. But if they are lucky enough to have retrieved two halves, they assemble them back into the original closed coconut form and sneak inside.
The shells provide important protection for the octopuses in a patch of seabed where there are few places to hide.
Dr Norman explained: "This is an incredibly dangerous habitat for these animals - soft sediment and mud couldn't be worse.
"If they are buried loose in mud without a shell, any predator coming along can just scoop them up. And they are pure rump steak, a terrific meat supply for any predator."
The researchers think that the creatures would initially have used large bivalve shells as their haven, but later swapped to coconuts after our insatiable appetite for them meant their discarded shells became a regular feature on the sea bed.
Surprisingly smart
Tool use was once thought to be an exclusively human skill, but this behaviour has now been observed in a growing list of primates, mammals and birds.
Click the image to open in full size.

They do things which, normally, you'd only expect vertebrates to do
Tom Tregenza, University of Exeter

The researchers say their study suggests that these coconut-grabbing octopuses should now be added to these ranks.
Professor Tom Tregenza, an evolutionary ecologist from the University of Exeter, UK, and another author of the paper, said: "A tool is something an animal carries around and then uses on a particular occasion for a particular purpose.
"While the octopus carries the coconut around there is no use to it - no more use than an umbrella is to you when you have it folded up and you are carrying it about. The umbrella only becomes useful when you lift it above your head and open it up.
"And just in the same way, the coconut becomes useful to this octopus when it stops and turns it the other way up and climbs inside it."
He added that octopuses already have a reputation for being an intelligent invertebrate.
He explained: "They've been shown to be able to solve simple puzzles, there is the mimic octopus, which has a range of different species that it can mimic, and now there is this tool use.
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Old 02-07-2010, 11:58 AM   #2 (permalink)
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That was... cute. My mother and I watched the video together and laughed our butts off. Now I want an octopus that I could call Ultros...

I was surprised how easily it moved, even with the coconut. I guess being all muscle has its advantages. : P
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Old 02-08-2010, 12:00 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Zee's initial post is really interesting, but we need to have a discussion point to this video, otherwise there will only be spam replies and this thread will have to be move to the Backyard.

So, what do you think this video teaches us? What insights may this give us into animal intelligence?

For example, up until this point it was only noted that humans and some primates could use tools. Traditionally, this has been a considered a sign of superior intelligence among animals that has been attributed only to humanity and their close genetic relatives. However, since the octopus is using the coconut as a tool to protect itself, what does this say about animal intelligence? Were are assumptions wrong? Can you post links or locate other examples of animals using tools.

This is just an example, but posts like "OMG so cool" or "This made me laugh" unfortunately constitute as spam and will be deleted.

The Pub is for intelligent and serious discussions only, so lets keep it that way please
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Old 02-08-2010, 05:31 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Thanks for the pointers, MB.

Using your guide, I actually found this link which shows us that primates and the octopi are not the only creatures found using tools. Elephants, dolphins, owls, vultures and even naked mole rats have been found using tools to help them in foraging/hunting food (or in the case of the naked mole rat, they have face shields for digging. How wicked is that?! )

I have always believed that most animals are aware of themselves and their surroundings, and that they do have a certain level of intelligence. They may not possess the same capabilities as humans to rationalize, but I do think that they are capable of actually getting smarter. It would be too shallow of us to just dismiss their potential for developing their intelligence.
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Old 02-08-2010, 08:44 AM   #5 (permalink)
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waw, who ever thought an octopus can "think" that way, to protect itself and being a bait to catch it's victim. this show that not only human or mammal got intelligent rate.

so, do the scientist catch the octopus to study them or what?
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Old 02-08-2010, 08:54 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Roadie View Post
so, do the scientist catch the octopus to study them or what?
I think the scientists have observed this behaviour in octopi living in the wild, and also those which they have caught and studied in the lab, probably by mimicking a situation where they make the octopi react towards a "threat" or a "predator"
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Old 02-09-2010, 04:09 PM   #7 (permalink)
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After you guys mentioned the scientists, I started wondering, if there's any difference between the octopi raised by people and the wild octopi, when talking about the usage of tools? (A weird sentence, but I can't speak proper English as of now My spell check died, too) I mean, the wild ones learn it naturally but the ones in captivity don't - well depending on the situation, I guess - necessarily need to hide in coconuts.
I guess what I'm wondering is that, do the octopi learn it by experience (like, having a predator chasing them) or does it come to them naturally?
Actually, it was mentioned that they were originally using (possibly, at least) bivalve shells, so I guess it's a natural insinct that they have? (Did I just answer my own question..?) Do the octopuses in captivity have that 'skill' as well?

Agh. Well, if it goes through the trouble of digging the shell from the mud, it's got to be at least moderately intelligent. It doesn't really surprise me to see 'smart' animals, since weren't humans the same in the beginning.

After we are gone, octopuses will conquer the world. Or elephants, because they're bigger.


Yush, I was just feeling guilty for not being here in a while, and had to post.
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Old 02-10-2010, 12:36 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Hevimankeli View Post
I guess what I'm wondering is that, do the octopi learn it by experience (like, having a predator chasing them) or does it come to them naturally?
I really don't know about that, as I don't know much about octopi intelligence. I would think it is actually a skill they picked up after numerous encounters with other predators. Sure, some of it may be part of their natural instinct, but it is because of their intelligence that they are aware of their surroundings, and are smart enough to use tools to help them survive in the wild. I don't know if octopi look after their young, and actually teach these skills to the younglings. If they did, then it'd come as no surprise that scientists have monitored the use of tool-using skills often enough throughout the species.

As for octopi is captivity, again, it depends on what kind of environment they are raised in. If there's hardly any threat to their existence being in captivity, I highly doubt they will actually pick up skills like using the coconuts as a mobile home. I think only if the scientist simulate a environment similar to that of the wild (with coconut shells lying around too ), then I believe the octopi may develop the knowledge of using coconuts as tools, or perhaps any other skills using the "tools" in their captive surrounding to help them survive.
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Old 02-10-2010, 01:11 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Hevimankeli View Post

After we are gone, octopuses will conquer the world. Or elephants, because they're bigger.


Yush, I was just feeling guilty for not being here in a while, and had to post.
it can only happened if earth was consume by sea
since i never heard octopi can crawl in land
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Old 02-21-2010, 06:09 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Very interesting, indeed. Reminds me of hermit-crabs.
Y'know they are searching themselves shelters like clams or other stuff, too.

Thats evolution, I'd say. If humans hadn't began to drop halved coconuts on the beach, octopuses would have never encountered them.
I once saw a video of intelligent crows. A crow was sitting on a parking meter and when a human arrived it attacked them and stole the money. I don't know whether animals or beings are actually able to develop intelligence and to increase it, but they learn and develop to save their existance.
For example I once heard that birds began picking films on milc-bottles which stood in front of a door ( you know, the milc-man who comes weekly or daily or whatever brings them). Of course, its easier for birds to pick the film to drink from the bottle than to actually go on hunt for worms or other food.
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Old 02-21-2010, 06:25 PM   #11 (permalink)
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When I first saw this threads title, I thought that the Octopuds were clacking the coconut halves together à la the fake horses in Monty Python & the Holy Grail.

However, the article makes no mention of any such thing. It makes no mention of horses at all. Very misleading thread title, IMHO.
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Old 02-22-2010, 01:34 AM   #12 (permalink)
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...Did Morri-pon just post spam in the Pub??

I think the whole title was a sentence of typos. Krimz was probably in a rush making this thread, as I dunno what she's actually trying to say. If she meant "houses", does it mean the octopi are trying to bluff their prey that the octopi+coconut shells are "houses"

/confuzzled
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